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Old 06/19/2017, 03:09 PM   #1
ChrisEnglish90
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Tank issue

So I got my 2 clown fish on Friday. Acclimatized them as the fish store said, worrying more about the temperature. Now my tank has has 4 snails and 4 blue hermitt crabs in it for around 2 weeks and 2 weeks prior to this just live rock, small amount of live sand and crushed coral sand. I often check the nitrite and nitrates at the start they was high but dropped. I also had a big spout of diatom algae, which has cleared up. So I come home from work today and notice my fish are acting strange. They was just sitting in the corner as usual but more upright than horizontal. Anyway, I go to make some food and have a peek at the little fishes and I noticed the smaller one laying on his side. The female was still hovering in the same place. 2 hours later the female started darting around d the tank and "swimming" upside down basically getting blown all over the tank. I put her in a tub in the tank and after a short while she had a burst of energy and almost jumped out. So I release back in to tank and the same behaviour continues. Not long later she took her last gulp. Now 2 fish died within hours. Both look like they had swallon gills however they was not present yesterday(I stare at my fish for hours daily...). I will add since day two the fish have not explored the tank at all and just remained in the corner. They also was not eating. Now I don't have my rodi u it yet(Thursday) so I can't water change but it wouldn't of been an instant fix.
What are your suggestions? I did an ammonia test with the API kit and it really was not high, between 0.25 and 0.50. I also noticed that there was a slight voltage leak so I created a ground probe using a stainless steel bolt. I'm at a loss here, not sure what to do... I will be getting g more live dried rock on Thursday too... Is it best to put the rock in and leave it for some time ? Can I add any fish at all? Suggestions and advice welcomed.

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Old 06/19/2017, 03:16 PM   #2
Rtdrumz
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One thing at a time. Watch your parameters. Anything you add or remove causes instability. Patience is the key to success.

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Old 06/19/2017, 03:21 PM   #3
ChrisEnglish90
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See I added 2 fish 2 weeks after getting my crabs and snails as I say I regularly test for no2 no3 and ammonia. Nothing really caused concern. I've read that clowns sit in corners and don't eat in new tanks and that feeding is something that will happen when they are hungry but for them to die at the same time virtually is very weird. Is it worth doing a big water change on Thursday when. I get my new filter? As I said above the ammonia was between 0.25 and .50 which isnt really alarming but a little high. When u get this rock(30kg, already have about 15kg) as it's dry it will take a while to be ready? But I can still place in the tank?

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Old 06/19/2017, 05:55 PM   #4
SpottedMoocow
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Clowns often times will own 4-5 inches of space and stay in that general area, but that's after they have establish their territory.

Pictures of the clowns would be helpful to help rule out any disease or parasites.

Your ammonia levels are high and you really shouldn't have any detectable amount of ammonia in a fully cycled tank. Ammonia is deadly at 0.50ppm. It doesn't appear that your tank has fully cycled yet.


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Old 06/19/2017, 06:12 PM   #5
thegrun
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Any ammonia at all will kill your fish. It sounds like you put livestock in the tank before the cycle was complete.


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Old 06/20/2017, 01:02 PM   #6
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I agree with that sounding like ammonia poison. Just because your "cycle" is over doesn't mean it has the ability to absorb new spikes efficiently.


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Old 06/20/2017, 01:05 PM   #7
ChrisEnglish90
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Going forward what would the steps be? Only 1 fish? Also I am getting some dried live rock. Would it be best to pop this straight in the tank after a brush ? And leave the fish a little longer ?

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Old 06/20/2017, 01:17 PM   #8
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Get ammonia to ZERO.
There are only two absolute rules in reefing
1. Take EVERYTHING slow, yes even slower than that.
2. Don't ever ignore rule 1.

(even for cyling your tank). See that thing at the end of the sentence? That's a PERIOD. Sit back relax and enjoy the journey. It has been 15 great years for me and I think it took 10 two fully learn the rules, and it cost me too much livestock.


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Old 06/20/2017, 01:18 PM   #9
ChrisEnglish90
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Fair point. Water change or just let time pass ?

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Old 06/20/2017, 01:41 PM   #10
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I would wait and let the required bacteria reproduce to sufficient amounts to complete the process of converting to nitrate. Continue to add food for the cuc's to eat so they produce the ammonia.


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Current Tank Info: Midas Blenny,Red Head, Lubbocks, Hoevans,McCoster Possum Wrasses, 2 Barred Rabbit, Cherub & Spotbreast Angle, Kole, Purple & Caribbean Tangs Matted Filefish, Percula Clown, 4 PJ Cardinals, M Lyretail
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Old 06/20/2017, 01:42 PM   #11
ChrisEnglish90
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And avoid adding this extra rock ?

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Old 06/20/2017, 01:46 PM   #12
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The more rock the better. That is where the de-nitrafing bacteria live and call home. If you haven't removed the dead fish I would leave them in the tank to push the growth of the bacteria. If you have removed them, get some shrimp from the grocery and put one in the tank and enjoy the others with cocktail sauce.

Your tank needs to be able to experience a periodic death without any ammonia spike.


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180 gallon, 30 gallon sump, 3 250W Radiums,4 ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Reef Octopus CaRx

Current Tank Info: Midas Blenny,Red Head, Lubbocks, Hoevans,McCoster Possum Wrasses, 2 Barred Rabbit, Cherub & Spotbreast Angle, Kole, Purple & Caribbean Tangs Matted Filefish, Percula Clown, 4 PJ Cardinals, M Lyretail
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Old 06/20/2017, 01:47 PM   #13
ChrisEnglish90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkgar View Post
The more rock the better. That is where the de-nitrafing bacteria live and call home. If you haven't removed the dead fish I would leave them in the tank to push the growth of the bacteria. If you have removed them, get some shrimp from the grocery and put one in the tank and enjoy the others with cocktail sauce.
Even though it's dried ? Any sort of shrimp?

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Old 06/20/2017, 02:27 PM   #14
hkgar
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Dried rock, dead rock, it all comes back too life in the tank, that's what the cycling is all about, getting bacteria into all the pores of the rock.

Shrimp you buy in a grocery store. Dead, preferably peeled and de-vained and ready to eat.


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180 gallon, 30 gallon sump, 3 250W Radiums,4 ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Reef Octopus CaRx

Current Tank Info: Midas Blenny,Red Head, Lubbocks, Hoevans,McCoster Possum Wrasses, 2 Barred Rabbit, Cherub & Spotbreast Angle, Kole, Purple & Caribbean Tangs Matted Filefish, Percula Clown, 4 PJ Cardinals, M Lyretail
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Old 06/20/2017, 02:31 PM   #15
ChrisEnglish90
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Quote:
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Dried rock, dead rock, it all comes back too life in the tank, that's what the cycling is all about, getting bacteria into all the pores of the rock.

Shrimp you buy in a grocery store. Dead, preferably peeled and de-vained and ready to eat.
Sweet. I get the rock thursday. I will buy some shrimp asap too. Shall keep thee updated.

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Old 06/20/2017, 02:50 PM   #16
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Yeah you should have waited intill you fully cycled. When Ammonia and Nitrite are 0 and nitrate is low, you can slowly start adding a fish or two.


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Old 06/20/2017, 02:59 PM   #17
ChrisEnglish90
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Quote:
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Yeah you should have waited intill you fully cycled. When Ammonia and Nitrite are 0 and nitrate is low, you can slowly start adding a fish or two.
This is why I bought 2 fish;


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Darilek View Post
It's just part of the process in cycling a new tank. Although it's ugly, it's a good sign and means you are about ready for some livestock (GO SLOWLY!!!). You will want to start with a decent clean up crew, which will take care of the diatomaceous. I would recommend some snails, hermit crabs and an emerald crab or two (since the diatoms will turn into gha). How many you get will be determined by your tank size. The brown algae is just a phase and very soon it won't be an issue at all ... bigger and better problems are on their way!! Haha kidding... Kind of. Lol

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I had crabs and snails already at this point so wrongly assumed I could add fish now I know different! Wait, wait and wait longer haha

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Old 06/20/2017, 03:20 PM   #18
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And----Read read read and read some more. Start with the Stickies at the top of the forum, there is some very good information there. Research and learn - it never stops.


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180 gallon, 30 gallon sump, 3 250W Radiums,4 ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Reef Octopus CaRx

Current Tank Info: Midas Blenny,Red Head, Lubbocks, Hoevans,McCoster Possum Wrasses, 2 Barred Rabbit, Cherub & Spotbreast Angle, Kole, Purple & Caribbean Tangs Matted Filefish, Percula Clown, 4 PJ Cardinals, M Lyretail
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Old 06/21/2017, 01:35 PM   #19
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I personally would skip throwing dead shrimp in your tank. Now that you've had some die off and ammonia spikes the nitrifying bacteria should bloom based on the current state of your water so long as you don't do a water change. Your nitrates will be close to 50ppm or higher in most cases and that's roughly when the nitrites and ammonia should read zero. Then start doing water changes until the nitrates come down to below 20ppm and it would be safe to start putting in a fish at that time. Weekly water changes will eventually bring the nitrates down to under 10ppm where it is pretty much safe to add anything but the most sensitive creatures into your tank...slowly. Now is the time to stuff as much rock in as you want. I always use nasty wet live rock but cannot recommend that based on getting flamed to death. However, for me, I use the live rock as both the source of ammonia (as it decays in the tank) and as a source of filtration along the way.


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Old 06/21/2017, 01:45 PM   #20
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Not only get ammonia to zero, toss some fishfood in and be sure that the tank can reduce the decay of THAT to zero before you ask it to handle inverts; and be sure it can handle inverts feeding for a week or so before you ask it to handle fish poo.


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Old 06/21/2017, 01:47 PM   #21
ChrisEnglish90
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I've got crabs and snails already and currently feeding a pinch of food daily. Tomorrow I get my dried rock so that should create ammonia ?

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Old 06/21/2017, 03:15 PM   #22
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Start here.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1031074

You need to learn the basics of reef keeping chemistry before you do anything else.

Rock doesn't create ammonia. Decay of food and fish urine put ammonia in the tank. Bacteria eats ammonia and bacteria grows on and in live rock.


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Old 06/21/2017, 10:54 PM   #23
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When you are finally ready for your first water change... only pull out water from the top of the water column. The bacteria is on and in surfaces. Try to leave it in your tank. Yes it is dirty but the bacteria will have taken care of the bad stuff. You want to keep as much bacteria in the tank as possible.

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Old 06/22/2017, 12:07 AM   #24
ChrisEnglish90
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Okay thank you for all your comments I will take this all onboard

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Old 06/22/2017, 09:17 AM   #25
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Only wet, uncured live rock would be a source of ammonia. Dry rock is clear of any decaying material but will eventually become cured live rock.

Good luck and don't forget to have a full understanding of Alkalinity, Calcium, and Magnesium before you start adding corals. That was my mistake when I first entered the hobby and I had a pretty sad tank. Now everything is growing like crazy!

Good luck and take your time!


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