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Old 08/22/2019, 01:37 PM   #1
Popytoys
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My pair clownfish eat their eggs?

hi everyone,

I have a pair of clownfish (Gladiators) raised for almost two years. They are very healthy and good color. But they are little timid and always hide behind the big rock... Until Tuesday I saw the bigger one laying eggs on rocks!

I am so happy and start to think about what next... I saw the "male" picking the eggs so I think hmmm it just tried to spawn them or clean them... then after another while... seems like all the eggs were gone! I still saw the female laying eggs... but both of them kept "eating" them.

I could see a tube from the female body...but i could not see a tube on the male...does it mean the eggs not fertilized so they both clean them by eating them all? Or it is just a nature that they just eat their eggs?

I am thinking about to pub a tile ( a china pot will be too big for my 10G IM tank)..do you think the tile will bother them not to lay eggs again? I am some bristle worms in the tank...

Please advise or share your experience.

Thank you

Popytoys


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Old 08/22/2019, 06:54 PM   #2
ThRoewer
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Was that their first time spawning?


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3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 08/23/2019, 07:03 PM   #3
Popytoys
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Yes they r... my first first to see that happen too 7


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Old 08/30/2019, 04:21 PM   #4
Uncle99
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Counterproductive but normal on first spawn.
They will spawn again in weeks
They will pick at the eggs to remove bad ones
They will definitely eat any fry which ultimately hatch.
Remove to a rearing tank when eyes go silver


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Old 09/06/2019, 10:41 AM   #5
Popytoys
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Hi thank you for your response. After 2 weeks it spawns again... good news is i saw the male lay in the eggs after the female did. So i know soome could be fertilized. After 8 hours i could still see the eggs attached in the rock... and thr male tried to attack me when i tried to remove a goby, which is part of the bad news that i think it ate mist of the eggs. So there r only small badge left. I do not expect i will get anything but just tried to get some practise for the next time.

Do u think the rotifers i get from local store... how much and hiw often i need to feed the fish?

Thanks! Have a nice day!


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Old 09/06/2019, 01:56 PM   #6
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Unless you collect just a handful you will need to get a stable culture going to produce enough food for the larva.


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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 09/07/2019, 06:52 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Popytoys View Post
Hi thank you for your response. After 2 weeks it spawns again... good news is i saw the male lay in the eggs after the female did. So i know soome could be fertilized. After 8 hours i could still see the eggs attached in the rock... and thr male tried to attack me when i tried to remove a goby, which is part of the bad news that i think it ate mist of the eggs. So there r only small badge left. I do not expect i will get anything but just tried to get some practise for the next time.

Do u think the rotifers i get from local store... how much and hiw often i need to feed the fish?

Thanks! Have a nice day!
I don't know the quality of ther Rotifers, I culture my own and then feed them phyto and Selcon about 4 hours before they go in the rearing tank with the fry.
This I do to try and make them somewhat more nutritional.

I drip the Rotifers slowly but continuously, for about 7 -10 days at which I try to start some transitioning pulverized flake, each new group is slightly different.

The amount varies widely with the number of fry, but I drip about a ML per hour.
For me, I know the level is right when the water goes just a bit cloudy.


You need to get the fry out of the tank and into a 5g for this to work.

These days I use a tank with a screen with 1/8" holes and a flashlight to automatically separate the fry from the parents, but spent years waiting up when the eyes go silver to catch as much as the hatch as possible. They should be hatching at night, maybe 1-3 hours after lights out. The fry are attracted to light. They are very delicate at this early stage. Sometimes I get a false hatch, say 25-50 first night, followed by the rest on the second night.

Have fun



Last edited by Uncle99; 09/07/2019 at 07:04 AM.
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Old 09/07/2019, 09:22 AM   #8
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I would have the parents lay their eggs inside a flowerpot or on a rock I could easily remove. Then on hatch day I would transfer the whole nest to the larva tank. This worked every time and is so much better than larva traps or midnight larva scooping.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 09/07/2019, 11:14 AM   #9
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The problem we had with pots or clay pieces is once removed, parent care stops as well. Up to the point of hatching, the parents provide care in oxygenating the eggs and removing the bad ones so they do not hamper the good ones. We also seemed to have less irregularities, which we attributed to the parents picking out the "bad ones" but can't prove that. Good timing mitigates this issue.

While fanning can be done with an airstone, it can be a difficult balance and picking out bad ones cannot be done.

By allowing the fry to hatch without interference and swim naturally towards the light, we maximized the amount of fry we got especially when the hatch was a two night affair.

Our simple partitioning, is virtually automatic in separating parents from fry, with very little loss. We use identical setups for breeding cleaner shrimps. The fry run to the light after hatching, egg sacks keep them alive till morning, then we just remove the parents, the partition, and what's left is a fry tank, just start the rotifer flow.

Our fry never see a hand or net until metamorphisis has completed, at this point they transfer quite well.



Last edited by Uncle99; 09/07/2019 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 09/11/2019, 10:49 AM   #10
Popytoys
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Hi thanks for the info. May i ask if raising the rotifers needs to working on something everyday? I nay not have enough time to do everyday. Fo u have a good link on how to raise it so i can get some ideas?

Btw finally all the eggs are gone ( looks like still eaten bu the parents) . But they last 3 days instead of 1 hour compared to the first time. Now i put some tiles and the fish look happy w it. I hope they will lay the egg on yhe tile so i can remove them easily.

Still wonder why they ate their eggs... i think some could be fertilized... but how do they know which one is healthy?... this hobby really gives me a lot of fun but also curiosity


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Old 09/11/2019, 01:10 PM   #11
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The problem we had with pots or clay pieces is once removed, parent care stops as well. Up to the point of hatching, the parents provide care in oxygenating the eggs and removing the bad ones so they do not hamper the good ones. We also seemed to have less irregularities, which we attributed to the parents picking out the "bad ones" but can't prove that. Good timing mitigates this issue.

While fanning can be done with an airstone, it can be a difficult balance and picking out bad ones cannot be done.

By allowing the fry to hatch without interference and swim naturally towards the light, we maximized the amount of fry we got especially when the hatch was a two night affair.

Our simple partitioning, is virtually automatic in separating parents from fry, with very little loss. We use identical setups for breeding cleaner shrimps. The fry run to the light after hatching, egg sacks keep them alive till morning, then we just remove the parents, the partition, and what's left is a fry tank, just start the rotifer flow.

Our fry never see a hand or net until metamorphisis has completed, at this point they transfer quite well.
I usually removed the pot with the nest just before the light was to go out on the night they would hatch and my hatch rates were generally 99 to 100%. At that point, picking out bad ones by the parents is no longer critical. Even if I took it out a day too early the hatch success was at around the same rate.
I got between 300 and 600 percula and ocellaris juveniles through metamorphosis and to a 1 cm length per hatch. With clarkii it were over a thousand.
So I would think that it works quite well if done right.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 09/27/2019, 11:59 PM   #12
Popytoys
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Hi Roewer thank you for the info... just too busy recdntly... but thank you for all your info and sharing here🙂

My fish just laid eggs the 3rd time... the first two times no eggs left... but this time there r about 10 left after 5 days. I could see the eyes on each egg. Very cute. But the male really do not welcome me peeking on them by swinging its tail. It even acts as if it were shark runs up to the surface to attack my finger tip which barely touch the water... very intersting snd aggressive behaviour...

I eould like to ask how long more i be waiting to have them hatch? The eggs r on a rock but not no the tile i provided... i m thinking about to move the rock out on the 7th day snd transfer to another small tank w air stone and sponge filter... with the lamp on ( has been on beaming on the surface of the rick where the eggs laid)

Also do u think Aquatic collection or 6th street has rotifers to sell? I do not want to raise the rotifers though as too much work. I know it is difficult to raise the babies that i learned but i fo not want to give up... or what else food i can try to feed them? Do u think thise for crystal shrimp baby food would help?

Also... if i move the rock out will this hurt the fish feeling do they may bit lay anymore eggs in the future?

The eggs w eyes r pretty amazing to me and i hope i can try best to kero tyem alive.

Any input or sdvise be great

Have a nice weekend


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Old 09/28/2019, 01:15 AM   #13
ThRoewer
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The eggs of all my percula and ocellaris hatch between 10 to 12.
Best is to keep records on when they lay eggs and when the eggs hatch. That way you can later better predict the hatch day. It may take a few spawns until they get it right and most eggs develop to hatch.

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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 09/28/2019, 10:34 PM   #14
Popytoys
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From monday 5pm to now sat so total 5 days so far ... am i right... my math...

I got the apocycplo from Aquatic “connection” they do not sell rotifers .. but i am going to get a starter kit from a company/web located at Campbell... also i transfer the whole rock to a temp tank ... been couple hours since...let see how it goes.


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Old 09/30/2019, 09:18 AM   #15
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I have not had much luck with store bought Rotifers. The counts were extremely low.
Mine hatch within 24 hours of the eyes going silver, yup 10-12 days from lay to hatch (ish)

Keep light dim. You will need to keep Rotifers in water for consumption for sure 7-10 days, then you can try to transition using pulverized flake and slowly ween the Rotifers.

I keep my Rotifers in phyto and Selcon for about 4 hours before slowly dropping them into the fry tank.

When they get this right, I would expect 200-300 eggs, 10 wil be hard to work with.


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Old 09/30/2019, 12:44 PM   #16
Popytoys
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Hi Uncle99 thank you for your info... after transferring the whole rock w the eggs to another tank... my eggs got eaten by bristleworms and small “silver curve-shaped” shrimps... feel so bad...

But i think i learn more for the next time ... i am going to buy the vossen larval trap but will try to learn to make one if they do not have in stock... so much work...

I should have left the eggs in the tank so protected by their parents... still fee guilty for the mistake i made

Thanks for the response


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Old 09/30/2019, 07:07 PM   #17
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Successfully rearing fry through the stages is out of scope for many hobbists, so take pride in what you have learned, trial and error is great learning.

Egg deposits will likely increase, keep them with the parents until eyes go silver, then transfer to safe tank, provide some very gentle aeration with an air stone, start adding Rotifers same time, water should look a bit cloudy.


This every couple of weeks egg thing will go on for some time, then stop for a period, then restart.

Our tanks are simple 10g glass, sterile, nothing in them at all except an HOB filter, which is stopped when eyes go silver. We separate the top (70%) with a piece of plastic which has hundreds of small 1cm holes. The tank is also painted black, except front, and a one inch square on the side so a small flashlight can shine through. The parents and eggs stay here until hatch at night, then the fry instinctively run through the holes towards the light, separating them automatically from the parents.

One of the main reasons we use a tank with a separation as discussed above is so we never have to move the nest, rather, we move the parents after hatch, the fry when born are super delicate and any handling will easily damage them.

In addition, because our small flashlight turns on after lights out, we never have to wait up, the eggs hatch, the fry run through the separation wall towards the light and in the morning, we find all the fry.

We simply remove the parents ( to another breeding rank) remove the separation wall, and start the rotifer drip for 7-10 days, then start the transfer to pulverized flake.

There's no question in my mind that parents care, up to hatching, is the best care and IMO, difficult to mimick.

Have fun!



Last edited by Uncle99; 09/30/2019 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 10/01/2019, 02:57 PM   #18
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Hi Uncle99 thank you for very much for sharing your experience. Would that affect their mood to mate/spawn if i move the fish to a different tank?
I tried ti feed the parents by using a siphon... but the male is so aggressive to try to attack it and it is so strong to flying out the tank... hit my head... and fall on to the cofee tank that i put the tank on... i never seen this so aggressive beforw.

I going to order the rotifer kit and raise them..

Have a nice day


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Old 10/04/2019, 07:14 PM   #19
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Hi Uncle99 thank you for very much for sharing your experience. Would that affect their mood to mate/spawn if i move the fish to a different tank?
I tried ti feed the parents by using a siphon... but the male is so aggressive to try to attack it and it is so strong to flying out the tank... hit my head... and fall on to the cofee tank that i put the tank on... i never seen this so aggressive beforw.

I going to order the rotifer kit and raise them..

Have a nice day
Welcome, breeding is kinda like making a cake, while we all use many of the same ingredients, we all do it a bit different.

Sorry, I don't know the answer to this. Mine did not stop, were quite regular for months it seemed, then nothing for quite awhile, but most started back up.

By no means am I an expert, just found it a challenge, had some good successes, made a few bucks, great fun!

My understanding was the the first bite had to by "living" because of some enzyme in the "live" that needed transfer to the fry to initiate the digestion system, found this in a paper out of the University of Hawaii, and that "dead" food would not trigger a "hit" from the fry. So being a novice, I always fed live first and Rotifers were easy, plentiful, and brought say 80% to metamorphis.

I would be totally on flake by this point, but would lose half of these through the metamorphis stage. No idea why. Every batch the same. I might guess diet.

Other hobbists seemed to be getting virtually no die off, wow, I must be doing something wrong.

I am not sure I understand the feed with syphon, I just fed as normal, Mysis, Brine, Krill, just the frozen, that's the food mine are used to.

I was successful in using newly hatched brine, but, lost many fry quickly. I tried this with cleaner shrimp and same result, bad numbers.

As you know there's a lot of myth type information, so perhaps I follow some thought that's just not true. Would not be the first!

Have fun!


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Old 10/04/2019, 11:16 PM   #20
ThRoewer
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...
Other hobbists seemed to be getting virtually no die off, wow, I must be doing something wrong.

...
What kind of tanks are you using for the larva?
I found that standard rectangular tanks don't work too well with more finicky fish and virtually not at all with shrimp.


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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 10/05/2019, 08:44 AM   #21
Uncle99
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What kind of tanks are you using for the larva?
I found that standard rectangular tanks don't work too well with more finicky fish and virtually not at all with shrimp.
Thanks for your response, I take all the help I can get....

Yes, just the simple Square cheap glass 20g.

I am Just a basement breeder, not a shop or anything, it was a simple experiment that ended up lasting for 3 years. Great fun, but not easy.

It now begs the ?.....what are you using....?


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