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Old 02/19/2011, 09:54 PM   #151
srusso
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Again same document, explaining intro growth...

Growth: When new screens start out, they almost always just have a light brown coating of slimy algae (diatoms). After the first cleaning, and into the second week, it usually gets darker, and by the fourth week and forth cleaning it, can get pretty thick. Itís important to realize that all algae remove nutrients (nitrate and phosphate) from your tank, so any algae that grows on your screen is algae that canít grow in your tank. As the nutrients in your tank come down, the type of growth on the screen will change. Here are some different types of growth you might experience:

Light Brown Slime: New screens, and sometimes older screens the day after they are cleaned. Perfectly normal.

Black Oil/Tar: Very high nutrients in tank. Screen must be cleaned every 3 days until growth is not so dark. Stronger lights will fix it faster.

Green Spaghetti/Confetti: This is the best type of growth, because the light-green color and open structure allow light and water to penetrate through all parts of the algae.
Also, it is more firm and compact, like a sponge or chaeto, and will not let-go and clog drains easily.

Long Thin Green Hair: This types occurs mostly in freshwater, and filters a lot because the light and flow go throughout the algae. But depending on how you build your scrubber, the strands may get so long they break off or slow down the drain. Adding a bit of Mono Potassium Phosphate to the water, to increase the phosphate, may help fix this and make it growth thicker.

Yellow Rubber or Yellow Slime: Your flow is too low, and is not delivering enough iron to the algae. If you canít increase the flow, then run the bulbs a few hours less each day. You can also try adding iron to the water, such as Kentís Iron + Manganese.

Cyano: Your light is too weak.

Big Bald Spot In Middle: Your flow is too low near the light, or you used spotlights instead of spiral bulbs and big reflectors. If you canít increase the flow, then run the bulbs a few hours less each day. Adding iron may help here too.

Mysteriously Appearing Small Bald Spots: If the growth is thick, but new irregularly shaped bald spots appear each day, then the algae is letting go from the screen. Your screen needs to be rougher. If you canít do this, then either reduce the flow, or clean more often, so it does not get so thick and heavy.


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Old 02/19/2011, 10:08 PM   #152
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This should help... it was taken from this document which also explains building an ATS.

www.radio-media.com/fish/AlgaeScrubbers.doc
I highly recommend reading through this short document on building ATS. It repeats a lot of the same things written here. All the newbies, consider this tonight's brief home work reading.


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Old 02/19/2011, 10:50 PM   #153
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If people haven't seen a water treatment facility

This image is from http://www.algalturfscrubber.com/

Also here is a quote from the algal turf scrubber site...

"...the ATS algal product can also be converted to paper and construction materials and can be used to sequester carbon and heavy metals as well as break-down toxic hydrocarbons. ATS-produced algae can be converted to energy products such as biodiesel, gasohol and methane."


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Old 02/19/2011, 11:38 PM   #154
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SantaMonica has recently posted the following quotes from the books Corals of the World. I found them to quite eye opening!

"Where deep lagoons are formed, coral growth, especially of Acropora, can be prolific"

"Contrary to popular belief, species diversity is not at its highest on the scenically attractive reefs found in clear oceanic water. It reaches a peak for any given region on fringing reefs protected from strong wave action, where the water is slightly turbid."

-- Corals of the World, Vol 1 page 27

Why? Because it shows that there is more coral growth in lagoon areas than on reefs. How is this? Since lagoons have more algae, they have less nutrients, and more organics (food), than reef fronts (data easily found in reference studies). And that's what corals, especialy SPS, need to grow. Reef fronts (where mostly Acro's grow) actually have higher nutrients and lower organics (food) than lagoons. Why then are there mostly Acro's on reef fronts? Because Acro's don't break under wave action like other corals, and therefore Acro's have less competition (also taken from Corals of the World, Vol 1 page 27).


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Old 02/20/2011, 12:19 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srusso View Post
SantaMonica has recently posted the following quotes from the books Corals of the World. I found them to quite eye opening!

"Where deep lagoons are formed, coral growth, especially of Acropora, can be prolific"

"Contrary to popular belief, species diversity is not at its highest on the scenically attractive reefs found in clear oceanic water. It reaches a peak for any given region on fringing reefs protected from strong wave action, where the water is slightly turbid."

-- Corals of the World, Vol 1 page 27

Why? Because it shows that there is more coral growth in lagoon areas than on reefs. How is this? Since lagoons have more algae, they have less nutrients, and more organics (food), than reef fronts (data easily found in reference studies). And that's what corals, especialy SPS, need to grow. Reef fronts (where mostly Acro's grow) actually have higher nutrients and lower organics (food) than lagoons. Why then are there mostly Acro's on reef fronts? Because Acro's don't break under wave action like other corals, and therefore Acro's have less competition (also taken from Corals of the World, Vol 1 page 27).
This is true. One thing to just keep in mind is that this refers to corals as a whole, not necessarily acroporids (in which case, their peak diversity is highest elsewhere), etc., but diversity as a whole.


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Old 02/20/2011, 12:29 AM   #156
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This should help... it was taken from this document which also explains building an ATS.

www.radio-media.com/fish/AlgaeScrubbers.doc

"Construction:

Pipe: A basic algae scrubber starts out with a ĺ” (1.88 cm) pvc pipe, with a 1/8” (3mm) slot cut along the length of it (the slot is only on the bottom side; it does not go through to the top side). Mark the slot with a marker, and cut it with a Dremel or similar power tool:

Cutting this slot is actually the only hard part of building an algae scrubber. If you don’t think you can do it, just ask another hobbiest to do it for you; a cabinet maker or model builder could also do it. It will probably take a few tries, so give yourself some time and some extra pipe to get it right. As a last resort, you could try using a drill to make a series of 1/8” holes really close together, and then use a file to open them all up into a slot. "
To get the 1/8th inch width (if thats what you need) two dremel cutting wheels (black fiber ones) make this gap. Thats how i do it at least. I mark one line and try to make it as straight as i can. If it waves a little, not a big deal, the water will still go straight down the screen without much fuss.


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Old 02/20/2011, 12:52 AM   #157
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Ive been trting to figure out how to post pics from my phone and I think i got it figured out. But anyway here we go, I got a 75g tank with a 20 rubbermaid sump. My ats was set up about a month and a half ago. Few pics but somthing to give you a idea. I dont think I roughed up the screen enough because I started seeing green algae 2 weeks ago instead of brown stuff on my screen. The screen size is 10x13 and I got a maxijet pumping into the ats pipe from one end and the drain from my tank on the other side. Altogether the flow is about 750 gph. The return pump is a wp-500 which is rated 500 gph at 7ft head and I have it at about 4ft. So im guessing it drains alittle more than that rate since its loo wer than 7ft.

Just a little info on my tank and ats. Oh yea my lights are one bulb on each side, 40 watts each bulb. As of now I am getting dark green algae on my screen. Just cleaned it today so I will post pics later befor I clean at the end of this week.


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Old 02/20/2011, 12:56 AM   #158
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LOL, duck tape, love it. And thats a really really thick sand bed, i thought mine was thick at 2-3". Looks good though.


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Old 02/20/2011, 01:08 AM   #159
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As far as my corals go I have noticed increased growth in all but my more difficult to keep sps. Lps are growing, acan went from 3 heads to an extra 2-4 litte heads sprounting. Trumpets have been spiltting at a increased rate. Monti caps that were bleached due to a vinegar accident and one that also lost its color due to being buried for a week by bullet goby have all regained their color. Zoas are growing like crazy as well.

Only reason harder to keep sps havent really grown is due to me only having a 4 bulb oddysea t5 fixture. I got a ati 6 buld 2 days ago so I will keep eveyone updated im sure the results will good. But I will also post pics of my current setup later just to give you a idea.

All in all going ats is a good choice in my opinion. N= 0 and p=0(api, need better kit) are in check and gha in display is dissapearing at a good steady rate. Just what I waiting for.


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Old 02/20/2011, 06:09 AM   #160
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Don't worry about not growing brown algae, the green stuff it what you want. Please post a picture of the display tank. It would be very helpful to show others how it's removing the algae in your tank. Thanks for posting your setup.


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Old 02/20/2011, 09:38 AM   #161
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Well switching to the PC lights produces a lot more RED algae. Not as much green as i was getting with my CFL's. So, if i can get some time after homework tonight, i think that i'll be converting over my lighting to some proper lighting like i once had. RED keeps miltiplying like crazy, but its the green that i want.


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Old 02/20/2011, 10:10 AM   #162
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Well switching to the PC lights produces a lot more RED algae. Not as much green as i was getting with my CFL's. So, if i can get some time after homework tonight, i think that i'll be converting over my lighting to some proper lighting like i once had. RED keeps miltiplying like crazy, but its the green that i want.
Green is optimal for scrubbing power in this type of build, you correct. If I understand you correctly. You had CFLs, switched to PC and are now switching back to the CFLs? I looked back through your posts here and I didn't see and photos of your setup. Would you mind posting some pictures for reference? It will help others to see it. I think you mentioned you have a direct feed scrubber over the top of your frag tank, if that's true it would be the first pictures on the thread of that type of build.


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General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264

Last edited by srusso; 02/20/2011 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 02/20/2011, 10:33 AM   #163
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Mine is gravity fed under the tank like many you see here. I had to replace the CFL's i was using and thought that i would give my PC lights a shot and see what would happen. The PC lights came from above my Frags that i replaced with LEDs. THe RED algae seems to be working (though i havent had ahy change to get ahold of a PO4 test kit yet to be certain of that) But all my other levels i have posted are top notch. My images i posted of my scubber were on the previous topic before this sticky was made but i'll surely post them again.


Quote:
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As promised, here is my setup:

power compacts on both sides


algae after just a few days (less than a week)


return pump


gravity fed (double 3/4" pipes connected to a single 1" pipe)


mini overflow (just enough to keep the water above the outlets to reduce the noise.


inlet back to the tank from the pump


excuse how crappy the walls look. School has been kicking me in the butt and i havent had a chance to clean it. I have noticed that my fish and stuff have been enjoying it though (eating it) same with my long spine urchin.



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Old 02/20/2011, 10:35 AM   #164
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done with my scrubber.
however, my problem is the the water not wetting the whole screen.
flow is good, but there are some spots that werent wet.

help for a sol'n is appreciated.
I don't know if you got a response here or not - didn't see it. It will take a week or two for your screen to 'slime up' and the water will even out. So even if you have good flow (and a rough screen) it may still not cover the whole screen. Double check

1) your screen is very rough

2) you flow is around 35 GPH/inch of screen width


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Old 02/20/2011, 10:37 AM   #165
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Mine is gravity fed under the tank like many you see here. I had to replace the CFL's i was using and thought that i would give my PC lights a shot and see what would happen. The PC lights came from above my Frags that i replaced with LEDs. THe RED algae seems to be working (though i havent had ahy change to get ahold of a PO4 test kit yet to be certain of that) But all my other levels i have posted are top notch. My images i posted of my scubber were on the previous topic before this sticky was made but i'll surely post them again.
Are you sure that you're not getting cyano or coralline on the screen?


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Old 02/20/2011, 10:39 AM   #166
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Are you sure that you're not getting cyano or coralline on the screen?
Yeah, im 100% sure of the difference. I cleaned it off a couple days ago, pealed right off, stringy, smelled like the after math of a chillie cheese hotdog. Yeah, i'm pretty sure. lol


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Old 02/20/2011, 11:14 AM   #167
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So I'm confused - what type of algae do you think you're getting?


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Old 02/20/2011, 11:20 AM   #168
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Not 100% sure what the name is but i dont think its Cyno, it doesnt feel slimy like Cyno that occasionally grew on the bottom of my tank, its actually hairy/grows in strands (could be due to the current???) But it could be Cyno, i'm not sure, i just know its not coralline.


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Old 02/20/2011, 11:32 AM   #169
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I wasn't asking if you knew the difference between cyano and coralline, I was asking if you were sure that you were NOT getting cyano or coralline. I asked because your screen is very red looking, and contrary to the name "red turf algae" it is actually more brownish-red, not purple-red or blood-red.

What you are growing on your screen appears to be cyano algae or cyanobacteria - "red slime". You do not want this in your tank obviously, as it is extremely difficult to get rid of. It is the same stuff that was growing on the bottom of your tank that you mentioned.

I believe you are getting this growth because you are using the improper lights for your ATS. You are using 10,000k and Actinic 50/50 PC bulbs, which is the completely incorrect spectrum for green/red turf growth.

Cyano is ugly if it gets in your DT of course. An ATS screen growing GHA WILL eliminate cyano, eventually. Actually, if your tank is overrun with GHA and other nuisance algae, SantaMonica has stated that there is a possibility that cyano will appear after N and P drop to zero and all other algae disappears, but that the ATS will eventualy out-compete the cyano and it will go away. I have yet to hear someone complain about getting cyano after running an ATS though.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone intending to grow cyano on an ATS screen, your system appears to have good water parameters, however there is so little we can tell from the small fraction of parameters we test in the marine aquarium.

I think you mentioned that you intend to switch out the screen and lights eventually, but you might want to do that sooner, because I don't think you really want cyano growing on you ATS screen.


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Old 02/20/2011, 11:41 AM   #170
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Oh i know you werent asking me, i was just saying that I'm sure its not coralline, but wasnt sure if it was the same as Cyno because ti didnt seem like it had the same properties as Cyno that i have (a year or so ago) on the bottom of my tank before I used an ATS. I do plan on replacing the lights tonight if i have time after I get my homework done (priorities...). It is a dark red, some slightly brown, and green seems to be doubling daily. So replacing my CFL's with the PC's was not such a great idea... shucks. I was hoping it would be ok till next weekend when i had more time. I'll have to hurry tonight.


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Old 02/20/2011, 11:52 AM   #171
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It's probably a mixture of several types of algae, but the cyano is likely what is giving it a slimy feel and reddish color.


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Old 02/20/2011, 11:56 AM   #172
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It wouldn't be the first time someone had to make a change quickly to their tank... I have had to a couple times on my tank as well. Even when I wasn't rushed, I never seem to sleep well at night for fear that I didn't fasten something tight enough or forgot to switch something on or off... But I agree you should get the lighting switch out tonight. Who cares about homework... Lol jk


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Old 02/20/2011, 11:58 AM   #173
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I'd have to agree. It was strandy which threw me off of thinking thats what it was, but i think the current of course plaid a factor in that. So that will be hopefully getting taken care of tonight.


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Old 02/20/2011, 12:00 PM   #174
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Who cares about homework... Lol jk
Lol, right ya know. If only it did it itself, school and my hobby would get along better... lol


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Old 02/20/2011, 04:11 PM   #175
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I'm spraying a 7 x 7 screen with a ViaAqua1800 (480gph) and lighting both sides with 23w curly-q bulbs. 29g tank.



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