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Old 01/28/2016, 01:03 PM   #726
Floyd R Turbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jade5051 View Post
So, I should use two LPC-35-700 or three LPC-20-700? What I'm gathering is run a series with a driver at 700mA. I won't have to worry about a crappy driver starting a fire and I can run few LEDs than the max output and still get the same result.
Sorry I missed this reply. LPC-35-700 says it can handle up to 48V drop at 700mA, 48*0.7 = 33.6W rated power. These are good drivers so you can push them, but it's always better to let them run a bit lower than rated power, heat is the enemy so they will last longer

For 18 3W Deep Reds, you have 18 * 2.2 = 39.6V or 18 * 2.4 = 43.2V so either way you are under the "rating" of 48V, and at 700mA you would have wattage output of 27.72 and 30.24, so technically you could use one LPC-35-700 and worst case (2.4v Vf per LED) you would be running at 90% of rated load. If you used two, each would be running at 45% rated load


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Old 01/28/2016, 02:39 PM   #727
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Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
An ohmmeter won't necessarily tell you that an LED is bad. You need a battery tester for that, just 2x 1.5V AA's, if the LED lights up, it's good (Rapid and Steve's carry these for like $1)

the LPV-60-48 will work for 2 parallel strings, each running at approximately 625 mA which is a good current for more DR LEDs, but not for a single series string.
Thanks for the source!

Ok I pretty sure I'm understanding this correctly.

I could use this LPV-60-24 24V 2.5A 60W and run 3 parallel strings each running at about 833mA or is this too much?

I could use this LPV-60-15 15V 4A 60W and run 6 parallel strings each running at about 666mA?


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Old 01/28/2016, 03:07 PM   #728
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The issue is that a CV device is not really a "driver" but is more like a power supply. Usually you use a CV source to power something that has a PWM chip on it or something. The power supply is not a driver, it is powering a driver (which requires a CV source)

A CC device is a driver and can be connected to an LED array directly. It's sort of like a power supply and driver combo, or simplicity's sake.

A string of LED will have a range under which they operate, and that means Vf will vary dependent on the current and the junction temperature. So Vf is hard to "force" or rather if you try to force it, the current will vary and if you are forcing a voltage, some LEDs will want one current, some will want another, and then you have components fighting each other and the result is heat or operating outside of their normal parameters.

If I got that all wrong, someone please feel free to correct me with the "you're wrong dumba--" stick.

But the key is that if you are going to use a CV power supply, you have to have the exact voltage on the load side that matches the power supply voltage. Meaning, you can't do 6 strings of 3 or 3 strings of 6, because your Vf does not equal 24V. Your Vf of your strings has to equal 24V.


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Old 01/28/2016, 03:13 PM   #729
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Vf for each LED is inherent to the LED. If you try to force a Vf that is higher than what the LED is designed for, boom.

current, on the other hand, is what the LEDs were designed to operate under, in a range. So a I(max) of 700mA means you can run that LED at 0-700mA and it's Vf will vary based on the current being pushed through it (and it will vary a bit based on junction temp heat as well)

If you go the other way and force Vf, the current will vary based on the LED characteristics and the junction temperature. But the problem is that LEDs are not designed to be ran under CV, so you can have some really bad things happen. For instance, if an LED will operate with a Vf of 2.3V and it will hold that pretty steadily for an input current of 400-650mA, what will the amperage be if you supply 2.3V constant? The answer is, you don't really know. It could try to draw 400mA or 650mA and you can't really control that, not with a basic power supply.

So I would just focus on CC drivers. Much simpler


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Old 01/28/2016, 03:32 PM   #730
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Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
Vf for each LED is inherent to the LED. If you try to force a Vf that is higher than what the LED is designed for, boom.

current, on the other hand, is what the LEDs were designed to operate under, in a range. So a I(max) of 700mA means you can run that LED at 0-700mA and it's Vf will vary based on the current being pushed through it (and it will vary a bit based on junction temp heat as well)

If you go the other way and force Vf, the current will vary based on the LED characteristics and the junction temperature. But the problem is that LEDs are not designed to be ran under CV, so you can have some really bad things happen. For instance, if an LED will operate with a Vf of 2.3V and it will hold that pretty steadily for an input current of 400-650mA, what will the amperage be if you supply 2.3V constant? The answer is, you don't really know. It could try to draw 400mA or 650mA and you can't really control that, not with a basic power supply.

So I would just focus on CC drivers. Much simpler
Thanks for the great explanation! You've really cleared up a lot of confusion for me! I've spent far too long looking at this by myself. I'm glad you are willing to help! Keep up the good work boss! Much appreciated!


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Old 01/28/2016, 05:23 PM   #731
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@Floyd

I know you recommend running blues at half power, dimmed or diffused. I was going to run my blues in series. I noticed that the blue Vf (DC 3.0-3.4V, 700mA/1W) is different than the red Vf (DC 2.2-2.6V, 750mA).

However, it's my understanding that since the Vf of the red in front of the blue is lower the blue will have the same Vf as the red or slightly lower due to inefficiencies. Essentially the blue will not burn at 100% because it is in series with reds that have a slightly lower Vf. Is this correct or do I need a completely different driver for the 3 blue LEDs?


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Old 01/28/2016, 06:07 PM   #732
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In a series string with a CC driver, the Vf will be whatever it is at that current. So your reds will drop 2.2V and your blues will drop 3.0V, etc. It doesn't matter.

Are your blues 1W and reds 3W? If so, just put them in series. The 1W blues will have a lower radiometric flux output than a 3W blue, so that's actually good - it simplifies the build. You won't have to do anything funky like putting a pair of blues in parallel within the series string (current divider)


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Old 01/28/2016, 11:01 PM   #733
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In a series string with a CC driver, the Vf will be whatever it is at that current. So your reds will drop 2.2V and your blues will drop 3.0V, etc. It doesn't matter.

Are your blues 1W and reds 3W? If so, just put them in series. The 1W blues will have a lower radiometric flux output than a 3W blue, so that's actually good - it simplifies the build. You won't have to do anything funky like putting a pair of blues in parallel within the series string (current divider)
The blues I ordered were 3W do you think that is going to be a problem? Should I cancel it and order 1W blues? Maybe I should just make something to diffuse the 3W blues?


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Old 01/28/2016, 11:40 PM   #734
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Wire one pair in parallel within the series.


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Old 01/29/2016, 12:12 AM   #735
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Wire one pair in parallel within the series.
Very clever! That will be perfect! Thanks!

Next time in Iowa I owe you a cold one!


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Old 03/07/2016, 06:29 PM   #736
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with a really good scrubber, can you avoid using RODI water and just go tap water in?


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Old 03/07/2016, 06:34 PM   #737
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with a really good scrubber, can you avoid using RODI water and just go tap water in?
Be careful. It will all depend on what's in that tap. Either way I would treat with prime. Some people can use tap for decades without much issue. Some people, like me, 1TDS can be deadly. Then there's everything in-between.

Then there's periodic maintenance the municipality will perform that could be damaging to your tank but not you so they won't notify out. And then there's possible changes in how they treat. Then there's Flint Michigan.


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Old 03/07/2016, 09:47 PM   #738
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yikes! ok ok...

maybe just let TDS drift a little..


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Old 03/11/2016, 03:28 PM   #739
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This is a controlled experiemnt. LED growth vs CFL.

Well, I pulled the trigger and bought 2 x 30 W Grow Light LEDs.
** The lights I got were NOT plug and play! I kind of expected that however when I read that somewhere.
*Luckily- I save things that I think might be usefull on another project in the future!
I had several 5ft 3 prong/wire plug and wire I cut off my old/used PC lights.
So I got out my soldering iron and solder- that gets used once every 5 yrs or so, and soldered and taped the wires up- now like new!- freebie too.

Here are the lights- I bought two of them- shipped to me for less than $40 total.


After installing the wire/plug. Did NOT require any type of ballast/transformer, etc.


I used my noodle and devised a free, easy way to hang the lights at the existing area using some old (saved for future projects) fiberglass rod sections from an old tent I once had.
I used some old high tensile line salvaged out of my sailing gear. Todd_Sails- right?

The experiment is one sheet has CFL's and one has LED's.
I cleaned both sheets equally and at the same time this time so they both start even.







I'm also tried Aluminum Foil for the top splash guard this time, instead of clear plastic.
The alum. foil kinda stays creased around the pipe better than plastic wrap, and it will block the light too.

You can be sure I'll post back with the results,
Todd


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Old 03/11/2016, 03:49 PM   #740
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Watch the screen with the LEDs on it for signs of photosaturation. The intensity of LEDs is much more than CFLs at the same distance. May need to split up photoperiod or reduce it.

Todd...sails?


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Old 03/11/2016, 03:55 PM   #741
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Thanks Bud/Floyd/Turbo.

In my hanging method, it's easy to simply slide the bracket along the rods to increase/decrease distance to the screen.

I'll be monitoring for this, as you say Captain, steady as she goes.....

Yes, Todd Sails, catamarans mostly, Currently have a Nacra F18 Infusion


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Old 03/11/2016, 03:59 PM   #742
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my money on the leds. those will work perfect imo..


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Old 03/18/2016, 09:22 PM   #743
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OK, 7 day update:

** it seems the 3 x 100W equivalent 2700K CFL bulbs are initially growing slightly more
green algae than the LED's!

I"ll keep monitoring


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Old 03/19/2016, 03:22 PM   #744
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** ** OK, re-do 7 day update;

I looked again, closer, with the ATS lights off (mid day)

It IS a little thicker growth, and it's GREEN!
I guess even with the white light while the red LED was on made it look much darker.


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Old 03/19/2016, 04:43 PM   #745
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I'm designing a sump for my Turbo L2 Rev 3 and just read that lifereef uses filter foam and or polyester pads in lieu of filter socks. Would polyfilter be a good first stage of the sump or would polyfilter starve the scrubber?

Does anyone have plans or a good design for an ATS/ bubble eliminating sump? I'm not planning on having a protein skimmer but would like to leave room for one in case the need arises.


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Old 03/19/2016, 05:31 PM   #746
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My DIY ATS hangs over my sump, near the RP intakes (2 of them)

I use a power head to direct some flow in my sump, and keep most all bubles out of the intake.

No answer on the filter pad ? from me, I rarely use a filter sock/bag anymore, don't seem to need it. Water is crystal clear


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Old 03/19/2016, 11:32 PM   #747
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Keeping more food particles in the water, by not using a sock etc, allows your periphyton to grow to natural reef levels; this will keep the water very clear.


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Old 03/20/2016, 01:14 AM   #748
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Keeping more food particles in the water, by not using a sock etc, allows your periphyton to grow to natural reef levels; this will keep the water very clear.
When you say "not using a sock ect", are you saying not to use filter foam, polyester pads or polyfilter either?


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Old 03/20/2016, 08:09 AM   #749
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When you say "not using a sock ect", are you saying not to use filter foam, polyester pads or polyfilter either?
I"ll chime in here again on this one.

History has shown the above you mentioned, quickly turn into nitrate factories.

So yes, don't use those either.

SM is right on this one. He (and Turbo) has done alot of research and have a lot of experience on these subjests.


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Old 03/20/2016, 11:38 AM   #750
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Keeping more food particles in the water, by not using a sock etc, allows your periphyton to grow to natural reef levels; this will keep the water very clear.
+++++

I triple the support on this. Any unidirectional obstruction to flow in the form of filter socks or foam blocks, bags, ... is unnatural and eventually destructive. Not only does it create a nitrate factory, it removes a key block in the food chain that is critical to coral health and growth.

Those "filters" may make the water "look" better but it's not. It's clear unhealthy water.

In fact, the ATS concept is superior to chaeto IMO because the water flows over it, not through it. In fact, even with ATS, the biggest boost in life comes with an alternating flow so any ancillary pickup of matter becomes food to the ATS without accumulating in it.


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