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Old 12/09/2017, 09:08 PM   #26
EMeyer
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This question makes no sense to me. My understanding of water softeners is they replace Ca2+ and Mg2+ with Na+ ions. This type of water softener doesnt produce anything remotely similar to pure water, its just replacing one salt with another. (Not to mention, I have never read anything to suggest they remove Cu+/2+ which is present at toxic levels (for invertebrates) in many or most sources of tapwater. (Nearly all homes have copper pipes, after all)

Is there some other kind of water softener I am not aware of that is actually removing ions rather than just replacing them?


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Old 12/09/2017, 10:00 PM   #27
outy
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Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht View Post
You ran an RODI unit with no prefilters? .
No. I ran my water on solenoid before a pre filter and in a few days it stuck open. Total bone head move ion my part.

never trust house water or its plumbing, always run a pre filter directly on front of your carbon and RO membrane, its why the sell them that way


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Old 12/09/2017, 10:03 PM   #28
outy
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Prefilters are great at protecting equipment but they can also drop pressure significantly (especially downstream of a whole-house system, which is already dropping pressure). This can wreak havoc on the effectiveness of the membrane.
They are always a must.

I run a booster pump after prefilter and carbon blocks, solves that.


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Old 01/13/2018, 06:10 AM   #29
Buckeye Hydro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMeyer View Post
This question makes no sense to me. My understanding of water softeners is they replace Ca2+ and Mg2+ with Na+ ions. This type of water softener doesnt produce anything remotely similar to pure water, its just replacing one salt with another. (Not to mention, I have never read anything to suggest they remove Cu+/2+ which is present at toxic levels (for invertebrates) in many or most sources of tapwater. (Nearly all homes have copper pipes, after all)

Is there some other kind of water softener I am not aware of that is actually removing ions rather than just replacing them?
Nope - your understanding of a typical residential softener is right on.


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Old 01/13/2018, 06:11 AM   #30
Buckeye Hydro
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Sorry, we do also have a multimedia filter
Hmm... and what media are in this multi-function filter? What is the size of the filter?

I often hear homeowners with troublesome water say something along these lines: "I just don't understand it.. I installed a whole house filter but I'm still having bad water issues..."

When we do a little digging, we find the "magic" multi-blah, blah, blah filter is little more than a sediment filter, or some other generic/off-the-shelf type of media that doesn't really address the real water quality issue(s).

Russ



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Old 01/13/2018, 06:20 AM   #31
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I'm thinking most people don't really understand that 90% of the plumbing in the US is COPPER pipes which we all know is bad for our tanks even in small amounts.

Regardless of whether he has a whole house softener or not, I'll bet the house is fed with copper pipes. This does assume it's an older house and not fed by PEX or CPVC pipes.


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Old 01/13/2018, 06:21 AM   #32
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Yep - likely copper or PEX.


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Old 01/13/2018, 06:27 AM   #33
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If PEX it's probably fine(even though most PEX fittings are copper). I would not trust it and still run an RO/DI. My entire house is PEX(replumbed myself a few years back when copper was sky high in price), and even still with the few copper PEX fittings I still run an RO/DI.

Give Buckeye Hydro ^^ a call, they won't steer you wrong, and certainly won't sell you something you don't need.

After being on these boards for a while now and seeing buckeyes replies, if I hadn't bought an RO/DI from BRS, they would have been my first call had I known about them.


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Old 01/13/2018, 06:37 AM   #34
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I wouldn't disagree, I just think this is one of those areas where people tend to take something to an extreme without understanding the whole story. Check the forum for people who actually talk about using tap water - the response would make you think they're suggesting it's OK to drink poison.
I love seeing this response. I successfully kept reefs for many years before I was able to purchase an ro/di unit using the dreaded tap water, fortunately my city tap water wasn't horrible for it. I also made sure I ran my water for several minutes to clear any copper concentration from the water that had been standing in the pipes. Most plumbing before the house is steel/iron and tap waters are generally balanced to NOT corrode the pipes so harmful metallic concentrations are generally lower than people think.

one of the secrets to using tap water or less than "pristine" starting water is to do less top offs and more water changes. the reason follows, as you top off any trace concentrations are going to rise through top off and evaporation. by replacing top off with water changes you are removing it reducing the rate at which it climbs. also running media in your system designed to remove such nasties like chemipure elite can help moderate the negatives generally associated with tap water.

now as to the OPs original question I would be more likely to use the water before that home filtration than I would be to use what was filtered through it.

I'n the long run Ro/di is definitely a less hassle and safer route if trace/mineral content of the source water is questionable.


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Old 01/31/2018, 10:02 AM   #35
nematode
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This hobby is constantly changing. For many years there has been the idea that one wants pure low nutrient (low phosphate, low nitrate, etc) water of "pristine quality".

However, look at the newer systems. The NOPOX low nutrient stage of reef keeping is moving toward people who add nitrates to increase color, and feed huge amounts of food that has lots of phosphates.
The triton method advocates not changing water, and instead adding solutions that contain trace amounts of Strontium, molybdemun, vanadium, Iodine, Iron, etc.

I am out of reefing for the moment, I moved to Germany for 6 months and tore down all my tanks.
I live in St. Louis MO and my water comes from the missouri river. Our water company provides a detailed statement about what is in the water- at least on the day they test.
According to the 2015 report (2014, and 2016 are very similar) in the testing 1.3 ppm nitrates, 26 ppm calcium, 0.08 ppm Boron, 26 ppm chloride, 16 ppm Mg, 1.7 ppm Potassium, 47 ppm sodium, .2 ppm Strontium, 151 ppm sulfate, 2.7 ppb (billion) vanadium, 2.8 ppb (billion), molybdenum, and a few organic pesticides 0.04 ppb (billion) 2-4,-D (an auxin plant hormone mimic), 0.2 ppb (billion) atrazine - a herbicide widely used in the midwest).
They list hundreds of chemicals that were not detected.

Why add back strontium, vanadium, Iodine, molybdenum as people using the triton method are doing, when we can just not RODI the water. The main reason I think people use RODI to is reduce phosphates and nitrates. BUT many reefers are now adding nitrates and feeding tons and wanting to have low levels of these nutrients in their tanks.
So the only thing we really want to remove is chlorine and chloramine, heavy metal contaminants, and other organics like pesticides. Most pesticide organics will be removed by carbon. Some metals like copper are effectively removed by carbon.
So I am coming to think that RODI may actually, in cases such as mine where the water comes from a source that is mineralized by running over old ocean deposits, "cause" more harm than good.

So upon my return I will use tap water rather than DI water to start my tank. I will filter it through a 1 um particulate filter, and several carbon filters. This should remove all the chlorine, chloramine, copper, and the residual levels of organic pesticides.

After all I drink several liters of this water every day. So if it is good enough for me, it should be good enough for my corals... i hope



Last edited by nematode; 01/31/2018 at 10:14 AM. Reason: mistakes
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